00:00:12: Alright this is Christoph Cemper again and I welcome you to my link building an SEO podcast. We've got a fantastic guest today: his name is Neil Patel and you might ask or not ask who is Neil Patel,
00:00:26: I ask you Neil: who are you and what is your background and history.
00:00:32: Sure. I'm a Serial entrepreneur. I'm a marketer.
00:00:36: I spend most my time just growing my own business and during my spare time I blog at neilpatel.com.
00:00:47: I also have co-founded quite a few companies from Kissmetrics, CrazyEgg, Hello Bar. They tend to be marketing software companies.
00:00:55: And you do all the blogging yourself or how big is the blogging team in your company?
00:01:02: Yes I write the blog posts. I have someone who helps me come up with topic ideas.
00:01:07: Also then have an editor who puts it into WordPress for me, than the edited and correct. I have someone else who adds in all the pictures and then the editor reviews it before it goes live.
00:01:19: Okay. But the output is still exciting and
00:01:24: it's fantastic what kind of reach you built over all these years. I think we met in San Jose in 2005 at the first search conference where I went to in the US and I think you've been
00:01:37: there for some time already.
00:01:41: Well, you've gone a long way and I'm really happy to have you in my show here. So what's going on for link building, link audits and SEO in your world and your part of the SEO industry or the marketing industry in general?
00:01:56: Links are still a huge factor in Google's algorithm as you already know.
00:02:01: It is harder and harder to get links these days. What we're seeing is
00:02:06: most people are building links through guest posting or public blogging networks which don't work. I don't recommend them cuz they're risky.
00:02:15: But what we're seeing is that links are still really effective.
00:02:19: You build a link you just have to wait sometimes three months to start seeing some traction. Six months for some decent results, but usually up to a year to really see good quality results from link building.
00:02:31: Right but isn't that all the value and all the benefit of having a long-term investment in the link? I often see
00:02:38: companies, even large companies think only in quotas and expecting something in SEO. We've been doing SEO for a couple of months and nothing happened. I hear this a lot. Did this happen to you as well? What do you see is the
00:02:52: biggest issue that large companies have with SEO that also struggle with organizational constraints that small companies don't have.
00:03:01: Big companies want results fast or if you don't give them results fast, they want projections and the problem with SEO is that it's really hard.
00:03:08: It's not accurate to do projections with SEO related efforts because you don't know if it's going to take 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year. The chances are nothing's going to happen really well within the first 6 months.
00:03:21: Right so what is your fix then because
00:03:24: even if you have the perfect projection for your own site, you don't know what you competition is up to. And if they do a little bit of competitive research, a little bit of following, they would then follow your tracks and at least see what's going on and maybe do something
00:03:40: to battle that. You can never factor that in.
00:03:44: I look at it as you just do SEO and you know the majority of the clicks happen in organic. Don't worry about what it take to get results. You just know it's something you have to do, so put in the time, effort, energy and money into it.
00:03:57: What kind of trick do you give your partners in these companies to explain what SEO is to their,
00:04:10: let's say,
00:04:11: superiors or to people that are not in the online marketing game at all? I mean after all, were promising something about a system where there's no transparency, where Google does never ever,
00:04:25: give us any proof or actually no confirmation of our prognosis.
00:04:32: Yeah. I don't companies much, cuz I don't really do much Consulting these days, but when I was doing consulting the thing I would give them is I'd show them examples of case studies online like
00:04:45: people's case studies on SEO and show them how long it takes, I'd show them how much more their competitors are doing than them, I would show them SEMRush data showing the value of their competitors search traffic, cuz they estimate how much organic traffic's worth.
00:05:00: versus theirs. And I'm like look:
00:05:02: There's how Google algorithm works, show them documents on how it's his big black box, it's 200 ranking factors according to the article from backlinko.com.
00:05:11: It takes a long time before you can see results. The question is who knows, but we know it's worth a lot of money, cuz this is what the competition is getting from organic.
00:05:20: And you don't have to do it. You won't get the exact results you're looking for on time frames are projections, but you're better off to do it than not at all.
00:05:29: Eevery day, or every month that you wait is basically lost anyways with this long-term effect. This is like thinking,
00:05:40: doing something but never really doing it. Than this reminds me also that the fact that you mentioned about case studies. I remember when we started doing those penalty case studies right after Penguin 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015. I remember people approaching us saying how dare you talk about my links. They were not aware that backlinks
00:06:02: and the backlink graph is something that is
00:06:04: public knowledge, that is available if you have the right data set, if you have to right database or in our case multiple databases, like Ahrefs and Majestic, all of these combined.
00:06:16: Seems like after all these years still, especially when it comes to links or offpage a certain misinformation or even fear - I call this the Penguin trauma for people that have been through a Penalty
00:06:30: and didn't recover or didn't recover fast enough. What take away or suggestion would you
00:06:40: give, would you share for people doing SEO, link audit, link building these days be it agencies or brands.
00:06:50: The big thing that I'll give them is if you're an Agency or Brand doing link building or link audits, make sure your links are always clean, they're relevant they have higher domain authority than your site,
00:07:02: the anchor text is natural. You're going for a long-term links, you're not just buying a link in a sidebar or placement, you're trying to go
00:07:09: for a lot of value creation like how can you create amazing articles or blog posts, or infographics
00:07:16: or material like podcast and videos were people want a link to versus just going out there and trying to get sidebar links. So you have to think more long-term.
00:07:26: It's not just about link building, it's about user experience as well. Making sure people stay on your site, they don't bounce, they want to click through your title tags because they are appealing.
00:07:35: It's the whole picture, not just not one element anymore.
00:07:39: Actually think it never was. Because with all the links of the world if you could get a white page to rank for number one, then you have a thousand people per second
00:07:48: bounce off that blank page. That was never useful and especially in Germany there was this huge thing where everyone did just on page where some people
00:07:58: totally stopped doing any kind of offpage, not even looking after their existing backlink profile or
00:08:05: watching out for negative SEO attacks which happen not just in high-margin industries but actually some pretty boring industries where there's money to be made by a simple affiliate site on Amazon.
00:08:17: Crush and burn tactic if you want. My final question to you now is do you have a secret or hidden tool
00:08:27: be it in LinkResearchTools or is there another tool that you say: "oh this is a tool that I am excited to us,e that I love and use everyday
00:08:37: or maybe every week"?
00:08:40: There's no one tool that I'm excited or that I use everyday it's more so for me
00:08:46: the biggest one that I use on the daily basis or close enough to daily because it's not daily
00:08:52: is BuzzSumo and the reason I use BuzzSumo
00:08:57: is it gives me a lot of data on what content is hot that people want to share and spread around the web. And that's typically the content that also gets a lot of natural backlinks.
00:09:09: So I use that too a lot to come up with ideas on what to write about.
00:09:14: Yeah. I think the BuzzSumo guys did a fantastic job in building their product and we built Impactana a little bit modeled after some of their ideas, that we then
00:09:26: integrated into LinkResearchTools in the full suite, as part of our offering when it comes to the data and the ways to approach that one.
00:09:36: So I'm curious to see how that develops over time, because the funny thing is that I saw BuzzSumo integrate link data as well, which just proves the point that these things all belong together and
00:09:49: yeah sounds like a very good recommendation. Okay so,
00:09:56: do you have a final statement or a final takeaway that you would like to share with my audience before I invite you again?
00:10:06: Just keep in mint that link building is never easy. It takes time, but it's definitely well worth it in the long run. Just be patient. Don't think about it and a weekly basis or monthly, think about it from a yearly perspective.
00:10:19: Fantastic thank you very much, Neil. I appreciate you taking the time and I look forward to seeing this live very very soon on the podcast. I wish you a wonderful day, thank you.
00:10:33: Thanks for having me.
00:10:34: Thank you. Bye, bye.
Alright that was it for me today. Cemper's link building podcast and I see you in the next show. Thank you very much.
00:10:45: Sounds good, thanks.
00:10:46: Thank you, Neil. Bye, Bye.