Cemper's Link Building and SEO Podcast

Cemper's Link Building and SEO Podcast

The best of Cemper's webinars on Links, Link Audit and Link Building


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00:00:12: Alright welcome.

00:00:15: To my link building an SEO podcast - Christoph C. Cemper founder of LinkResearchTools out of Vienna and I got a fantastic guest that I've known for over 12 years.

00:00:28: You might know him Rand Fishkin - The Wizard of Moz.

00:00:35: Thank you for having me Christoph it's a great to join you.

00:00:39: I saw you don't usually ask a question who are you what's your background but I think that's kind of redundant to talk about that so I would like to ask you this question where you heading to and where's malls heading to you know you started a community that is next to know where that is basically,

00:00:56: blue print off any any kind of storr any kind of community that I would look at and there's been many products many development,

00:01:07: bought outside of the business venture develop from being bootstrap to venture capital,

00:01:14: where you going to what what what what does Rand and what way does moss go to India.

00:01:21: Yeah so awesome as I think.

00:01:25: Probably a lot of folks know that last year we shut down a few products and did a little bit of a office and I'm heading I've never done that before never been part of a company that did layoffs.

00:01:37: And that was heartbreaking and tough but I do think it was the right decision and Somas mazahs focuses really back on SEO and that means that,

00:01:47: you know a bunch of our engineering and product and design teams marketing teams everybody's Focus back on SEO and so I think what you're going to see for Mazda's really over the course of the next year 18 months a lot more investment.

00:02:01: I am yessio software than what you seen in the in the last few years and I hope that means you know the Big Goal that I've heard the team talking about and that I've been very supportive of and hopefully been able to help with a little bit is.

00:02:15: Can we want to be the best in the world at sort of the four core aspects of a SEO software and that is Sino rankings crawl.

00:02:24: Links on page.

00:02:28: I believe they can do it you know I think it's I think it's possible it's it's just a matter of Will and dedication.

00:02:37: But I know no small task right there's a lot more I mean,

00:02:41: link resources a great example this right there's a ton more impressive software competitors in the market then there ever have been.

00:02:51: I will put a working holiday in my for a lost over 8 years now I'll talk to you know go from step to step to step where I say I love something you every day which she don't.

00:03:01: Puzzles me because I think you know things but it was just a ling said in those things especially that all that especially not really needed for five years are all the Pell the artist finding the toxic things and it's very very nice compared to a.

00:03:16: Amazing the broad spectrum that you just mentioned it's cause you know those are there yeah the cornerstones off.

00:03:24: Any organic or fancy all right Papa Joe's imagine links you mention those words that I remember when you Rebrand it from SEO moss and when you know things got out of fashion of that people even didn't want to say that they will link builders.

00:03:38: Oh my God.

00:03:39: You know you're because of all these Palace of things going wrong as changed hasn't it.

00:03:46: I think it has it's it's interesting to see I didn't think there was a huge shift at Google when not Cuts left.

00:03:56: And I think that huge. Huge shift has just continue to not same direction where essentially you know Google is basically said hey let's let.

00:04:04: The algorithm and the ranking systems and our software take care of the problems that we have as a search engine rather than.

00:04:17: Short of striking fear into the hearts of you no marketers through this campaign of.

00:04:25: Speaking in and blogging and leaving an occasional comment in tweeting something threatening and I kind of think so I think that has shifted dramatically and I think for the better.

00:04:36: Yeah yeah.

00:04:38: You asked about me I don't want to ignore your question there so.

00:04:43: The next things for me I am working hard on a few projects someone outside of the scope of of Maz you know.

00:04:55: As most of you know I step down see you a little over three years ago and have been an individual contributor since I still do a lot of login speaking and I'm going to keep doing that and white part Friday and I buy some of our product and Engineering teams.

00:05:10: That kind of stuff but um you know some of the things I'm doing outside of other one is.

00:05:16: My wife and I have been doing a tiny tiny bit of investing in particular we just,

00:05:23: I'm invested in a small Venture fund out of Los Angeles called backstage Capital that I'm really excited about we were.

00:05:32: Well let's say somewhere between frustrated and infuriated that,

00:05:38: that many of the folks in the Venture World basically back companies that are pretty much exclusively white dudes which look I get it,

00:05:49: just like a white guys right I'm one of them they have lots of companies to create butt.

00:05:54: No I was looking for something that would help bring other types of folks other diversity into the wrong I think that's where a tremendous amount of opportunity exists.

00:06:03: Han Solo backstage capital.

00:06:05: A box exclusively founders of color and specifically women of color Founders which I think is just awesome Arland Hamilton runs that fund second thing I'm doing is.

00:06:17: You know many of you who listen to Chris house podcast and Christoph I know you go to lots of events I'm working on an initiative to try and make events safer and more welcoming.

00:06:28: I'm across the board and around the world particularly for women attendees and women speakers who unfortunately as you and I both know yet.

00:06:38: A tremendous amount of you know harassment and hard times and in uncomfortable situations when they go to these events and I.

00:06:46: That keeps a lot of great women out of our industry and keeps a lot of great women off the stage and frankly.

00:06:55: Bull shit in my opinion right like you shouldn't have to deal with that stuff and so I'm working on an initiative to try and fix that talking to a lot of event.

00:07:05: You know event organizers and companies and sponsors and speakers and hopefully we'll have something to announce the next you.

00:07:11: How does some that sounds exciting and I think you know this is not specific to all right industry it's maybe.

00:07:21: Issue especially it may be in Tech I mean,

00:07:25: when I when I got into into sun marketing I thought oh well at least this is a proper industry you know whether it was kind of a balance between men and women who came from you know it in software development.

00:07:40: Sleeping all.

00:07:41: Dudes in 1990 something also especially in Austria but I guess you know if you can set my stone with that.

00:07:51: In addition to what you already do and did that something that will go beyond.

00:07:56: Owl Nicola online marketing industry of digital marketing industry which is still you know a very nice industry compared to you know bigger ones.

00:08:05: Yeah and I have been talking to a lot of event organizers in the broader technology space as well I'm in the broader marketing space.

00:08:13: As well so hopefully yeah hopefully it's an initiative that can that can grow and you know that a lot of people are passionate about I think that time.

00:08:22: You know so many of the opportunities that I had you know was especially especially as a young 20-something guy would have been.

00:08:31: Somewhere between unavailable and dramatically more difficult if I were a woman and I think that's.

00:08:42: Accurate accurate or lay a great to hear that and you know you have the authority you got the name you got them Reach possibly them you know also too.

00:08:57: Well to move the needle a lot more now than anyone else so I appreciate that this baby has to do when you said you talked to sponsors you talk to companies.

00:09:07: How do you slash companies I guess you know that basically 10 feet the conference with a sponsor money.

00:09:13: Yeah that's exactly right right so I think I didn't know much like many things in this world money drives a lot of change and so,

00:09:20: if you can get you know for example if I can convince Microsoft not to sponsor events that won't you know certify themselves the safe and won't have protocols for harassment in these kinds of things,

00:09:31: you know that takes away a lot of sponsor dollars and then those people you know those events feel the pressure.

00:09:38: And the same is true you know if I talk to you you know a bunch of companies in the in the SEO software space you sponsor these things you know so I search metrics or an sem Rush Ma's itself of course right and has since a lot of and sponsorship over the Earth so I think,

00:09:52: yeah those does dollars reporting in them speakers to you know you can you can impact a lot of things that way but this is you know to your point,

00:10:00: and since this is a you know what link building focused,

00:10:04: podcast I think that one of the things that I found over the years is that as you as you start to build up influence and Authority start to build up connections,

00:10:15: are you have this wonderful.

00:10:17: Just wonderful privilege of having a lot of influence in your field and that is that is a great thing then you have to decide.

00:10:28: What obligation do I have to give back and in and in what ways and so for me part of that is yes I've been blessed to.

00:10:36: Everlasting a decade-and-a-half build a lot of influence in our field in our community and you know a lot of that is luck and a lot of it is no skill and hard work but certainly I feel that.

00:10:47: Pull to improve the industry so that you know the next 10000 people who come into this field have even more opportunity than you and I.

00:10:57: Wow,

00:10:59: well yeah that's that's a lot about you know the next Generations of that Park the bald with Calvin youman from from brightness you just recently,

00:11:10: what does actually bring a lot of young people with free tickets to use comforter 3000 people I have you been there at brightness you.

00:11:18: I have I have never made it unfortunately I got a few invites and I've always been booked up so hopefully one of these years they'll ask me and my schedule will lie.

00:11:27: No I'm I'm I'm going to shoot an email to Calvin right on that because actually you know would always both history of having all these colors covers it still come back and front,

00:11:36: Al from the 3000 guess mm of them more 2500 get a free ticket at so it's all,

00:11:42: Atlas a young blood or freshman students or or people that just getting started that would not get the tickets paid or Canada,

00:11:49: and that brings a whole different.

00:11:52: Atmosphere and of course potential to to the conference in 04 from using speaker as a sponsor also so that kind of developing.

00:12:02: Market if you want Unison League to check it out because it's all so different from all the other conferences.

00:12:09: I know I am but cannot connect me to the last companies that you obviously have a lot of connections with and I get the impression.

00:12:21: Over all these years that you know well.

00:12:24: Small businesses so are all small agencies that usually you can or have a resource issue DDD the money to people.

00:12:33: What's the issue in large companies why destroy what is still started with SEO or online marketing in general what's what.

00:12:42: Cannondale what's what's money is not the issue there.

00:12:45: Yeah I don't think it is money I think it is I think it's it's three big things that I've observed,

00:12:53: one is organizational complexity that creates friction in any type of new investment or NHA.

00:13:03: And I've observed that even at a company the size of moss so you know for example when we were when we were a seven-person company we could build software.

00:13:15: So much faster than we can build it today you know things would take not just half the time but you know,

00:13:22: a quarter of the time I'm to build the same features and functionality no couldn't serve quite as many customers and it wasn't his,

00:13:29: but the code wasn't as well documented there were three or four people who could work on it there was really only one you know the maintainability and serviceability over the long-term was much harder but.

00:13:41: Speed of development much much faster if we want the same thing on the SEO site if we want to make changes to the website and we just made them.

00:13:49: You know you want to roll out some new tag across the site great it's done tomorrow by one and roll out a new tag across Mars right now.

00:13:58: Who.

00:13:59: You know two weeks 3 weeks if I'm if I'm lucky right and Maz is pretty good you want to roll out a new tag across you don't Microsoft's,

00:14:10: websites we are talking six months to a year right it is just.

00:14:17: It is it is real so there's only one organization I've ever worked with and worked with we sort of got together with them because we have some friends that work there but you know Facebook.

00:14:28: Few years ago Center Grove team over to Ma's Mazda's office as we sat down with them and walk through a bunch of stuff and they had some that's an SEO issues you know that night I think I think we.

00:14:43: Remember we had dinner with like one of the guys from team that one of the engineers who was in the room with us made the change to.

00:14:52: Facebook's website that evening it was fixed the next day.

00:14:56: And I had this like holy crap Facebook just fix an SEO issue overnight that.

00:15:03: That does not happen I mean when they talk about move fast and break things you know that had that that could have been.

00:15:10: The Benchmark that.

00:15:12: But I think that's that friction that organizational complexity that one I think the second one is speed are so SEO is a long-term investment.

00:15:23: And CMS and marketing teams and departments are judged on their quarterly results.

00:15:28: And so making an investment today that you know might not pay off for two or three or four quarters is a very tough one,

00:15:36: Pinochet arguing for Budget arguing for investment versus other types of things that'll move the needle you know and weeks or days which most paid media well you know you start investing in a new page Channel you see returns as soon as the advertising in the visitors start coming.

00:15:51: And then the third one is measurability which ties back to that as well right SEO is not only challenging to implement and takes up,

00:15:59: you know a longer time to see returns it also has a measure ability challenge as compared to pay media because there's a such an incentive,

00:16:08: pay channels and other services such as candles to give you all this data about you know how someone came and where someone came from and what they did on your side and whether they converted and with that so you know Google Staunton provided and a lot of search traffic is no,

00:16:23: Park traffic so tough.

00:16:27: Yeah I just talked to the question of whether with your new major offering,

00:16:33: that you're working on with your team is that something Target at two large companies are basically to the,

00:16:39: crowd off I don't know how many what were they using numbers I don't have the current ones on my head but that basically the whole SEO cross that you have now.

00:16:48: Yeah us how's about we have about 25,000 paying customers on.

00:16:56: Pro which is heard of our our SEO software and then maybe another another ten or fifteen thousand on Mouse local but I think the show actually there was a big fight it.

00:17:09: Yep yep inside inside Maza I would say it was a.

00:17:13: Apostle like a true you know sort of political struggle and I was.

00:17:22: This is rare for me in the last two years but I was on the winning side of this one.

00:17:27: The new products will be targeted at everyone sort of SM B's you know everyone who's paying your $99 are the Legacy folks $49 all the way up till like 2:49 and 500 month,

00:17:40: there will be I think in years to come as is going to invest more in the Enterprise side of things but for now this new product is going to be targeted at.

00:17:51: Nsmbu said I'm very I'm very happy about that I you know my personal feeling is that I think that's where the opportunity lies I think Enterprises.

00:18:00: You know they have lots of budget lots of dollars lots of people serving them searchmetrics and conductor and right Edge and all these other folks are already going after.

00:18:10: Hi those I like the small guys right I want to help them compete.

00:18:15: Which brings you you know and our competitions and even more with the same roof for example I think that this is where I would see them.

00:18:24: Yeah I think I think I see him rush and AHS really serve the.

00:18:30: These little guys but they also serve big guys I think they serve the very like hardcore SEO researcher you know data-intensive SEO person I think that.

00:18:43: Lamaze should try and compete with that.

00:18:46: You need to do a much better job of competing with with those two companies and they've done really impressive stuff particular round data quality but I think that if miles wants to be.

00:18:56: Unique Eyewear has to focus on is the the quality of how the product provides.

00:19:05: A great user experience that's easy even for,

00:19:08: SEO beginners and sort of intermediate folks that you don't have to be an expert you don't have to be Advanced you don't have to be able to You Know download a CSV and put it into Excel and run pivot tables,

00:19:20: hi in order to be in order to get value that you know Moz should be able to walk you step through step by step through 90% of what,

00:19:28: you need to do for the optimization on your site.

00:19:31: Wow that's great wish.

00:19:35: Fingers crossed.

00:19:36: Rand and I hate to say this but we're overtime but we talked about 10 minutes 15 minutes 90 minutes now so maybe,

00:19:45: one final 22nd get you Rich Creek overnight if a gold nugget from Red fishkin before I say I want to have you on the show again in the future and then thank you so much for the maybe this one take away for the listener,

00:19:58: right now.

00:19:59: Yeah so I have a tool that I'm not a lot of folks in the SEO world have heard of but I think can be very powerful it's called clear bit and Richmond.

00:20:10: So clear bit clear bit clear bit., and basically this tool will allow you to upload,

00:20:20: email addresses or domains into it and then they will give you back very comprehensive profiles,

00:20:27: of the people and organizations behind that so you can get really cool demographic psychographic behavioral data,

00:20:35: about an audience and that will help you then go figure out who are the influences of this audience how do I Target them how do I get you know find a website that,

00:20:45: not just link to them but that are influential in a space and I think that is,

00:20:50: different way of going about the link building and you know sort of influencer marketing efforts then what were traditionally used to which is pure competitive Intel,

00:21:00: check it out clear bit it's clear bet.com.

00:21:03: Wow that looks interesting and thank you so much for that and yeah thanks for for for being in the show and I look forward to on that chip next chips then where that say thank you and thank you everyone for me.

00:21:19: Why does Crystal Campo follow the link research tools we were talking to read fishkin the visit of moss and I wish you a wonderful day or evening thank you bye bye.

About this podcast

Christoph C. Cemper is a well-known and distinguished expert in SEO who started link building for clients in 2003, building the LinkResearchTools since 2006 and marketing it as SaaS product since 2009. When the famous Google Penguin update changed the rules of SEO in 2012, Christoph started Link Detox, software for finding links that pose a risk in a website’s backlink profile. He introduced ongoing link audits and risk management to the market in early 2011.

by Christoph C. Cemper


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