00:00:13: Hello my name is Christoph C. Cemper and this is the link building and SEO podcast and we got another amazing guest and this show name is Frank Watson. Frank who are you what are you doing what's your company doing what's your background?

00:00:27: Itsfunneh.

00:00:31: Frank Watson set number of people know people that have been in the industry it will most probably not be better with us he webmaster which is the handle that I've been using it all the various for on the Sunday.

00:00:44: I've got to conferences and up and doing those since they're the only two thousands and have Frank Watson on it and.

00:00:53: When people hear me speak in that had the accent which was a little bit stronger back then that yellow your rosy webmaster and I'm still get them to change my name on my tags so that they.

00:01:04: Yes if people would actually know who I was because that was the name I used to such as your watch forums which I added it for a while.

00:01:14: Now in all the various other places around town but I've been doing this pretty much since the beginning.

00:01:21: I remember when the other website started I've been doing a little bit of internet marketing and through 8 Mile and and newsgroups pride of that but and then the web came along and it was like.

00:01:34: He is a new well then and I in the beginning it was gambling and the adult industry that were the only ones that were paying so I left a little bit about those Industries and.

00:01:45: And then the late 1990s when my sister who is.

00:01:52: Very much mainstream bought all of her Christmas presents online I realize that it was time to change upper and.

00:01:59: I did enter into the real world and I did a bunch of years down on Wall Street with financial services and I work with companies like what I tried over and MTV.

00:02:11: It felt like a tire that was so far it's right away.

00:02:15: Maersk Apple Market fxcm.

00:02:17: Avex yeah yeah yeah.

00:02:20: Yeah that was I mean we were spending well over a million just under 2 million dollars a month and PPC back then.

00:02:30: Which has Sarah.

00:02:34: At the wetness yes nacho Hernandez introduced might be as a speaker yes people to go.

00:02:42: Anyone that spends $1,000 on PPC put your hand up anyway it up keep it up 5000 10000.

00:02:50: Fifty thousand a hundred thousand lifetime 200,000 he had one other hand up and then he just jumped they said I doing over a million and it goes well Frank doesn't pay search every month.

00:03:07: It was fun,

00:03:09: and that's the one thing about it so constantly changing and I thought process of what you could do back in the day for link building,

00:03:19: like the wild west that now with the,

00:03:22: Google terms and conditions and it's not so much the Google titians ability to see through what you're doing.

00:03:30: That's where it becomes rather difficult to try and cheat the system.

00:03:37: On the other hand they finally took action it's like from it for my perspective you know I thought it said like lakes in 2003 alright it and from my perspective it took.

00:03:47: Like forever took almost a decade in 2012 and it finally cracked down on link building the cheap style link building that was around back then,

00:03:57: forever probably you don't know 10 years but but 15 years or something like that so.

00:04:02: I thought they change the game time of calls because only with link detox when we gave that away for free you don't.

00:04:10: I will trust you don't have to link you to feel free for eight months.

00:04:14: Was there you could get it for the for a tweet off of $1 because I thought we just use this as a set of 10 is Allegiant two to show up all the great link theater we have and I thought you know some people might make a case,

00:04:27: and I know some people were a five-digit 10,000 people you don't analyzing older penalties and only at this point you know when I was servers crashed and when we,

00:04:37: I don't know how much I realized oh man this is huge at an hour that was preaching you know high quality High trust however thinking laying Zemo super expensive and hard-to-get.

00:04:49: Everyone else basic the urr 99% of the market got away with so much less quality and effort which you know.

00:04:57: Now in hindsight I would go back in Spanish I'm a lot more than I did so.

00:05:03: Yeah I mean it's changed so dramatically with the different algorithms introduced and chest,

00:05:12: the rules and regulations of sudden companies especially in the United States you've got,

00:05:19: setting industries that are regulated by government of the side and,

00:05:24: what you can do there is so much different than if you just creating your own so, this website but if you doing Financial Services or if you're not doing anything illegal or insurance or health related so many in a row,

00:05:39: compliance issues that you have to go through that you know it adds to the burden of what you can get away with what you can actually use this methodology.

00:05:49: Yeah I got his well obviously the whole Market matured and and anti-age that I've got basically more professional with you know the rules actually changing the way that.

00:06:02: You can also pay big time for your mistakes and for doing it wrong I'm going for an up managing your risk by itself while you know any other days you could basically yet like you said got away with a lot more and do more.

00:06:16: please give price I guess for all day and all for the real business not just a SEO it's alright Finance I remember all these payday loan updates.

00:06:25: Yeah I understand that times when I come down rather hard on on places that.

00:06:40: Are justifiably yeah or or shouldn't.

00:06:43: Be hit the weather at the house and I remember and Smarties guest blog post on the site which was really good quality contact.

00:06:53: Made an effort to really restricted the type of stuff that got put up there and yet went Google push back at the guest blog posting and gather,

00:07:07: whatever you call them love pbn.

00:07:11: Blog networks she got caught up in that and unfortunately that's what happens at another friend Danny Harwich who has Danny Webb.

00:07:21: Which is a massive a gremillion member programming Forum when.

00:07:27: And if it came in because about a third of her uses RR,

00:07:32: people that have English as a second language the the whole content as a gram or things like that,

00:07:38: the nearly penguin really hurt until that's going to bother them and realize and started to use that site as like the Watershed.

00:07:48: Point where at the lake red filter and it knocks Danny way that they get it back so that she got back in.

00:07:56: Yeah yeah yeah you know when it comes to the gas plug-in thing I remember that big big message stick a fork in it I think this was a wonderful I'll pick the way from from the cats actually before I went along with Asian then off to the.

00:08:12: Government.

00:08:13: That was just one another very very very colorful example and I don't my guest by guest by guest blocks I know what was the service call Micah.

00:08:25: I think that's what it was like a service or.

00:08:31: Yeah yeah the best I mean in terms of size 2 best side to hit,

00:08:40: because it was so popular and when you don't get these questions about leaving training sending out to my success Team every day from customers that you know really question should we do children get any kind of Outreach what about the,

00:08:54: blogging thing and it's it's very hard to even understand when you don't see the full range of quality from you know.

00:09:03: Unbelievable good contributions off of a bye bye line brightest and in and enjoy those to that kind of gas block and that's what that was sold as,

00:09:12: blogging witches please get more or less Optica syndication or automated are there distribution that you still don't have going on today sometimes,

00:09:22: pop out the drain from you know basically low-quality to extremely high-quality was all put into one job with the name gas block and.

00:09:31: Not exactly and end end is now the FCC of in the United States you have got involved because I call it a night advising,

00:09:43: create content in your pain to place it somewhere and you don't.

00:09:48: Make the statement that this was paid in I beat that.

00:09:54: Cuz it's.

00:09:59: The rules of the game a constantly changing it and you've got to stay on top of what happens and you know yet,

00:10:06: by the same type in your cup places like Forbes and entrepreneur,

00:10:10: that's gladly allow people to come in and post that and because they are a high-quality or or brand of seriously brand recognize print magazine as well as an online,

00:10:22: publication they get a little bit more than what your damn I guess I stayed in and basically they're both had the same soda contact,

00:10:31: and if anything that Inez was was better quality.

00:10:36: Yeah I totally agree it's it's it's gotten very very you should actually you know I got this you know especially those too much didn't and all kinds of spam emails that I received for for someone pitching a,

00:10:50: paid following some.

00:10:52: Yeah you get a lot of those now I probably see at least 5 or 6 of those every month people.

00:10:59: Ascending me here's a list of places where I can write articles for you.

00:11:03: And in this series part about it is half of them are no follow-up links anyway.

00:11:10: I didn't give you any benefit apart from the traffic if they're highly trafficked websites I wouldn't mind being prominent and Dago Red adore,

00:11:20: did magazine because you know that a lot of people reading those and you can click through traffic as opposed to the value of the link.

00:11:28: Right right and you know in my opinion when it's a no follow attached to it in some cases this can still be very very helpful just look at the key pedia is all just no follow.

00:11:41: And show me the traffic on Old it true that use a signal then this could actually be helpful on the other hand you know if you look at the magazines because he mention four and everything is no follow if you would have a full-length know that stick up like a red flag as well and actually.

00:11:58: Cause more problems maybe,

00:12:00: even more so this is one when you know for my part of you what I've seen it last three years or so we even got you know those no follow links being mentioned as reasons for these,

00:12:13: we got thousands off of examples of Hispanic samples that we collected from all the Clans together and.

00:12:19: They mention no feelings as well as reason for a manual extra for a penalty which you know from iPod if you make sense also because they are penalizing that spending intent,

00:12:31: Rochester technical criteria.

00:12:33: And at this.

00:12:34: Bad part about that is it's almost like that movie with Tom Cruise where they predict the future of crimes.

00:12:46: It's like intent it's pretty hard that's the thing Google isn't the Lord I remember more than 10 years ago when Michael Gray first made that statement at a at a conference and just got up and started clapping because.

00:13:01: But that's the thing they can have a whole idea of intent it's because they're Google and they they control the vast majority of of such traffic and placement things like that so that got that.

00:13:16: It's not breaking any rules or no rules because you got the intent.

00:13:29: That again demanding to control Kohl's the game so.

00:13:37: That's why a lot of the cases now I'm moving a lot of the stuff to its social media.

00:13:46: Yeah what if it's about the traffic you can you can get a lot more traffic done through social media quicker than you can.

00:13:57: Through scr.

00:13:59: But that's like an Escape Route also that just like any paid search right where you can have more predictable results for in the easy are at let's say click to dollar ratio something.

00:14:12: I mean that's the benefit of of page searches you can follow the actual click to the key from the keyboard and the ad and measure the conversion cost and things like a man,

00:14:26: if it's worth continuing.

00:14:28: Right right so that's much more pleasing position basically because he can use Excel 2-propanol was whatever you know what you need.

00:14:36: Showing the budget and what's up what are you seeing big companies you know is the biggest issue to to sell at SeaWorld sell organic in general is it this but you know what you cannot,

00:14:49: explain or Kenneth prove that you know an amount of EX will bring why or is it the fear from panties.

00:14:58: It's the part of its two vagary of what that what you're spending your money on you know what I mean I mean absolutely.

00:15:09: You shouldn't have a hard time with big corporations apart from the fact that it takes a long time.

00:15:14: But to tell them okay he is a technical loaded up your website and if you make these changes it will have a positive impact on web pages Rankin Google is approval.

00:15:27: Now you can you can go through you can do a very Sarah Seidel that and end.

00:15:32: Catch the form for snap add to your tags and make sure your internal Lincoln's and place all of the different things no duplicate page content etcetera of canonical language High strap tags.

00:15:48: That's what stuff can make a very definite impact in that sells easy but then the long-term like okay we need to create content.

00:15:57: That becomes something where and then some of the contact for widest out there.

00:16:03: Are inexpensive they know this you can pay quite a bit of money to get piano quality people to write for you and then you've got to be able to see the return.

00:16:14: And it's a lot of a c-level Executives if they don't see it happening in a month or two they're questioning what the money was spent on.

00:16:23: Hahaha.

00:16:25: Yeah where's with a smaller organization that's generally and out of his specially if it's in the small niche.

00:16:31: It's not going to cost this much that don't have as big of a website and yeah you can be a little flexible and I can go be a longer tile that's the thing of big companies want to rent for black dress.

00:16:44: Yeah.

00:16:45: Where is a.

00:16:46: Tomorrow or next week.

00:16:48: Yeah exactly yeah where is a company that does happen to make black dresses they may be able to be happy with French cut size 3 black dress.

00:17:00: The longest Thailand and even a Geo geographical addition to it because they they only have one office and they gonna sell online.

00:17:10: What is the funny I mean actually I can just confirm what you just said I just have talked to her to Papa's a certified agency liquor social self Ad Agency that told me that they had 2 huge clients Corpus cute Enterprise,

00:17:25: and they stopped the project on a link building only after 3 months because they didn't see the results quick enough and the.

00:17:34: D did the thing on the other hand is especially large organizations as she mentions take a lot longer to extra engaged this larger bunches and,

00:17:43: when you think about what it takes to set up the contact to set up their relations to do the Outreach can she get someone to respond it takes weeks but sometimes until someone responds what do you expect from a from the search engine results that if you have a bunch of you know thousands or or even hundreds of links created that old might take a while until,

00:18:03: you know,

00:18:04: is an impact in Google and that's been the case I think 10 years ago I spoke about link that factors into those and 7 when I was on the webmaster with monster radio show hunting was 2007 something like that like 10 years.

00:18:20: That has changed you know that the core of Google is still the same Defenders some pop okay we can span of a get some,

00:18:29: I'm pop filters into the core but still it's the whole link based thing that they dated try to let you know and improve with all these extra signals.

00:18:40: Yeah definitely yeah you want to keep an eye on your parole budget.

00:18:47: A lot of people don't quite understand that they thinking of you put it on Google's going to crawl all your pages overtime and Google search console in place you'll see the number of pages that guy,

00:19:00: on a regular basis on your website so you really do want to understand about crawl budget and,

00:19:08: have at least a couple of links on your homepage is always going to come there then go to the some of the new content that they get to and then from that link to even so the new content.

00:19:19: You really do have to be aware of how the whole thing works are the spiders don't crawl your entire website every time that come.

00:19:29: Grab a bunch of pages that look for some new if they can't find it easy if you have 404 snapped especially dead in tunnel links that they had a couple of those and they got up,

00:19:42: and they're off to the next website so you've got to be conscious of a lot of things to be out of the make the SEO what.

00:19:50: You don't want to put him payments in front of it that you can create all the good content you want but if Google is not fun to get on your website because you're not giving good access and I could say that naps every page,

00:20:04: have your site map constantly save you know you really want to watch how they do crossbows and then make sure that the pages are placed in such a way or.

00:20:12: Titles in such a way that they get to those before they just got back to your all the pages.

00:20:19: The right foot with all the years out of work for 10 15 20 years did your in the industry did SEO get easier that it got last complex.

00:20:30: Not at all if anything it's gotten harder.

00:20:35: In the sense that the other is some structure and there's a there's some great tools like us out there to help with a lot of the stuff that back in the day you have to do like I know the links semicolon,

00:20:47: Batman and NCR your competitors domains and see what he was getting links from where you can only go so deep into those searches,

00:20:56: yeah.

00:20:57: Tell me it's gotten harder because the search engines themselves I've got smarter about finding things that you may finding that were a little considered black hat.

00:21:09: Yeah there a tools out there now that help.

00:21:13: You doing seriously I White had to the pristine SDI than there are a lot of tools I can.

00:21:20: No end and that's benefit those a lot of us tools weren't around when we first started and.

00:21:26: Simon and a lot of our friends credit others it's just.

00:21:32: In that regard it to UCI but yeah you've got to have a good grasp of how it was in the past I think.

00:21:39: The people that I respected the new of people coming into younger guys that are in the in the space of the ones that when you have a conversation too bad that the early days.

00:21:49: They have a knowledge so that least respectful of the fact that if they're going to London.

00:21:56: What came first because that this is still a lot of that stuff.

00:22:01: Title tags descriptions duplicate content the things that were relevant 15 years ago a lot of them still are relevant,

00:22:11: it's the newest stuff and with the ability to use new tools we can get a stye on top of a lot of things and and come up with creative ideas and in that regard it's it's.

00:22:23: It's hard up but you got tools to help make it not quite unbearable.

00:22:28: Yeah I couldn't imagine you actually went link research tools started it was like proud,

00:22:34: tube so whatever I think fifty thousand lakes or something for the mains and now you know where this went up to 210 x 450 or 500 thousand six hundred thousand and now with the 25th think that the souls we now have,

00:22:50: 2 X 5 X 10 X 20 X know some domain sweet some Leaf find a 20 million things where we could only find and show to mend it before I'll performing all the different sources that we combine together obviously because now that the picture is so much.

00:23:07: Brick Show this brings us to the point where.

00:23:11: The data that we see is so much more and of course like you said without any kind of tools I couldn't imagine how we would have done that 10 years ago but maybe the web for souls of small of back then and the things we're not,

00:23:23: so important you could,

00:23:25: more crash and burn or 03 brute force in 02 with Patriot side white from some big newspaper and right anyways well today it's more ammo precision and basically look more complexity in the hole.

00:23:39: System.

00:23:41: That we can handle with little better tools but like you said if you don't appreciate that complexity or basically disregard it I think that you can get into troubles today even more than you could.

00:23:55: In the past yeah I think describe Old SEO back then Morris proved false just too much stuff that worked.

00:24:05: Back then.

00:24:06: Yeah it's a sad I mean it's open.

00:24:11: It would be rather boring if everything that we had to do could be done with a tool,

00:24:21: even though they're all the tools it's the people that have got the creativity and and the background and the experience of having done a bunch of different Industries and and worked in the space for a while that have the right skill set,

00:24:35: yeah there a lot of people back.

00:24:38: Do a thing on Google analytics in and read a few articles and half of them are inaccurate and and then start calling themselves as the others and starts offices and the next thing you know.

00:24:50: Dad crashing a butt and people's websites and then they're coming to your crying to go home with him for some touch.

00:25:03: Jackson o'doherty put that right he said the price of a professional only becomes apparent value for professionally because a pair of the few bald into an amateur or if you need.

00:25:15: Pay him to fix the amateurs problem something like that.

00:25:18: Exactly.

00:25:18: I thought the other coat that I remember right now always is,

00:25:22: a guy saying a how easy it is to actually do SEO with online marketing because you find all this information for free,

00:25:29: qualities of a finance business you have to go to school and University and do all these things but on the web you can just Google and find all these offices and then you find a post from 2005 on maschino walk the fence posts about health.

00:25:43: You could submit to all these directory something that would get your penalized in no time and you don't look at the date for some people don't do that you can get yourself into Big Trouble in that I guess that,

00:25:53: chunk of bad information just because it's old enough is bigger than the developing new information.

00:26:01: And that's the other part and I it if you don't really have the experience,

00:26:08: even if a I'm not denying that there people that are relatively new to the industry that is sharp and that have done some reading the right type of reading and have,

00:26:17: a good skill set and knowledge in their bed that work with some of the tools like screaming frog but you also know the other one lost tools not bad.

00:26:27: NN can do a lot of good but in a predominately I had a client about 18 months ago who.

00:26:36: I've done a reporter for any said off your message to three or four years old.

00:26:43: I breed mobs and I can tell that you've what you're suggesting is just all that I had to pull them up and said and said on his flight the thing is.

00:26:54: A lot of the elements that your site is not doing has been the same since the beginning.

00:27:00: Duplicate titles descriptions content that you can read articles articles.

00:27:12: The rotten things that haven't changed so it being able to like you said look at the date.

00:27:19: Look up what's going on and then do another search they stopped the day and got no directories impact on STI and I just.

00:27:33: Yeah you gotta stay on top of the game and I just reading back a year or two is not going to make you an expert and SEO you've got to really spend the time looking at some of the old upset about that I forgot then.

00:27:49: Nnn just that I Cannonball.

00:27:53: I threw some testing I said have some fun tests last year.

00:27:55: New website created a 10,000 page website just a test schema.

00:28:08: I mean sometimes you've got to be out of the put the time in a little bit of scraping and some reordering of content.

00:28:17: That setting information isn't proprietary.

00:28:21: Reply to the little bit give the want to get that you want to have a website up you don't want to use your clients websites at test.

00:28:30: You should drive websites to test any theories that you've got and do it a few times and then share it with some close friends that are in the industry to see if they can duplicate what you what you seen that type of thing.

00:28:44: Doing it with your client is just going to get to test out of the industry pretty quickly.

00:28:48: And you only have one name to lose right.

00:28:51: Yeah exactly.

00:28:53: Alright okay so we will over time budget now is you wanted to keep this short and sweet with 5 to 10 minutes we have to 28 minutes so I say thank you very much Frank Watson from this,

00:29:05: my name is Christopher thought of the link resist rules Frank maybe some final words to last sentence from you before he closed.

00:29:13: I will go in and this isn't a link I will pitch the fact that if you're getting to the space and you need them ain't namecheap.com,

00:29:25: is where I am at working at the moment and uh you can most probably will not be able to find Better Price than Mains to buy so,

00:29:34: BestBuy sell somebody.

00:29:38: Wonderful wonderful yeah that's just tried and I think we all.

00:29:42: Cheap each of us has a couple of mates Yuma constantly.

00:29:46: Yeah.

00:29:46: Okay,

00:29:48: cool alright thank you very much Frank say bye-bye to New York everyone I hope you enjoy this little extra Love Session my name is Crystal Campo found at the link that says truth creative lengthy talks and I wish you a wonderful day say bye bye from Vienna Austria,

00:30:04: kiss.